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How Safe are Safety Deposit Boxes ?

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lukamagnotta
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How Safe are Safety Deposit Boxes ?  Reply with quote  

My name is Luka Magnotta, im a male model in Los Angeles California, I have recently been hearing rumors on the internet that the IRS is able to seize peoples safety deposit boxes. Also President FDR apparantly sezied everyones gold and safety deposit boxes in the 1930's great depression.

Here is the official Wikipedia Article. Interesting Read.

Executive Order 6102
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Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933 by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates" by U.S. citizens.




[edit] Effect of the Order
The Order required U.S. citizens to deliver on or before May 1, 1933 all but a small amount gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67 per troy ounce. Under the Trading With the Enemy Act of October 6, 1917, as amended on March 9, 1933, violation of Executive Order 6102 was punishable by fine up to $10,000 ($166,640 if adjusted for inflation as of 2008) or up to ten years in prison, or both. The price of gold from the treasury for international transactions was thereafter raised to $35 an ounce; this had no lasting effect on the value of the dollar, which henceforth was determined by its value relative to other world currencies, and which had been "hyper-valued" by the severe deflation of the previous three years.

Order 6102 specifically exempted "customary use in industry, profession or art"--a provision that covered artists, jewelers, dentists, and sign makers among others. The order further permitted any person to own up to $100 in gold coins ($1,664 if adjusted for inflation as of 2008; a face value equivalent to five troy ounces of Gold valued at $4800 as of 2009).


[edit] Invalidation and reissue
Despite the dire threat of ten years in prison there was only one prosecution under the order, and in that case the order was ruled invalid by federal judge John M. Woolsey, on the technical grounds that the order was signed by the President, not the Secretary of the Treasury as required.[1]

The circumstances of the case were that a New York attorney, Frederick Barber Campbell had on deposit at Chase National over 5,000 ounces of gold. When Campbell attempted to withdraw the gold Chase refused and Campbell sued Chase. A federal prosecutor then indicted Campbell on the following day (September 27, 1933) for failing to register his gold.[2] Ultimately the prosecution of Campbell failed but the authority of federal government to seize gold was upheld.

The case forced the Roosevelt administration to issue a new order under the signature of the Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau, which was in force for a few months until the passage of Gold Reserve Act on January 30, 1934.


[edit] Abrogation and subsequent events
The Gold Reserve Act of 1934 abrogated the gold clause in government and private contracts and changed the value of the dollar in gold from $20.67 to $35 per ounce. This price remained until August 15, 1971 when President Richard Nixon announced that the United States would no longer convert dollars to gold at a fixed value, thus abandoning the gold standard for foreign exchange (see Nixon Shock).

The limitation on gold ownership in the U.S. was repealed after President Gerald Ford signed a bill legalizing private ownership of gold coins, bars and certificates by an act of Congress codified in Pub.L. 93-373 [2] [3] which went into effect December 31, 1974. P.L. 93-373 does not repeal the Gold Clause Resolution of 1933, which makes unlawful any contracts which specify payment in a fixed amount of money or a fixed amount of gold. That is, contracts are unenforceable if they use gold monetarily rather than as a commodity of trade. However, Act of Oct. 28, 1977, Pub. L. No. 95-147, § 4(c), 91 Stat. 1227, 1229 (originally codified at 31 U.S.C. § 463 note, recodified as amended at 31 U.S.C. § 5118(d)(2)) amended the 1933 Joint Resolution and made it clear that parties could again include so-called gold clauses in contracts formed after 1977 [3].


[edit] False Rumors of Safety Deposit Seizure
Circulating on internet are rumors that Executive Order 6102 led to the seizure or freezing of safe deposit boxes in 1933. There are also falsified versions of the text of the order which imply that "Internal Revenue Service agents" managed this supposed freezing of safe deposit boxes. The actual text of the order which can be viewed in the PDF file below has no reference to IRS agents or safe deposit boxes.

In actuality, despite the threat of criminal prosecution, no safe deposit boxes were forcibly searched under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes. One of the few such cases occurred over two years later in 1936 when the safe deposit box of Zelik Josefowitz, who was not a U.S. citizen, containing over 10,000 ounces of gold was seized with a search warrant as part of a tax evasion prosecution.[4] In 1933 approximately 500 tonnes of gold were turned in to the Treasury "voluntarily" at the exchange rate of $20.67 per troy ounce.[5]

Although the U.S. Treasury did not seize safe deposit box contents it nevertheless came into possession of a large number of them due to bank failures. During the 1930s over 3,000 banks failed and the contents of their safe deposit boxes were remanded to the custody of the Treasury. If no one claimed the box it remained in the possession of the Treasury. As of October, 1981, there were 1605 cardboard cartons in the basement of the Treasury each containing the contents of an unclaimed safe deposit box.[6]


Thanks, Luka Magnotta
Post Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:24 pm
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Kopie
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Luka

I spent 32 years working for the IRS, most of it in Audit. The IRS can sieze your safety deposit box but they have to have a reason, and as I recall a court order. It would have to be in conjunction with an audit or criminal investigation. There would have to be signs (to them) that you were not reporting all your income and could be accumulating what you are not reporting in your safety deposit box. So, if you are an honest, taxpaying person, you have nothing to worry about.

To sieze it because you might be hording gold would not happen (unless the source would be unreported income).

However, although the above is all true, you must remember that Obama is your President
Post Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:43 pm
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coaster
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Obama & co., following the lead of his predecessor, is doing a pretty good job of seizing corporate assets. What's to say they won't move down to private assets?

There's also some question as to whether the IRS is actually a legal entity. There was no law passed by Congress and signed by the President authorizing the IRS and the powers it exercises. Trouble, it's so widely believed that there is, even among the judiciary, and the IRS itself, that you'd have a tough time fighting them on it. And I wouldn't care to.

Of course, anyone who'd like to point out chapter and verse of the U.S. Criminal and Civil Code, can easily prove that statement wrong. Or can they?

PS - please don't post all in bold.

~Tim~
Post Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:57 am
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urvi88
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quote:
Originally posted by Kopie
Luka

I spent 32 years working for the IRS, most of it in Audit. The IRS can sieze your safety deposit box but they have to have a reason, and as I recall a court order. It would have to be in conjunction with an audit or criminal investigation. There would have to be signs (to them) that you were not reporting all your income and could be accumulating what you are not reporting in your safety deposit box. So, if you are an honest, taxpaying person, you have nothing to worry about.

To sieze it because you might be hording gold would not happen (unless the source would be unreported income).

However, although the above is all true, you must remember that Obama is your President

Thanks for sharing such great info, it helps me a lot.
Post Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:30 am
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suraja
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If you have important documents you’d like to safeguard, at the very least you should make copies and store them in a safe place at home. As for valuables such as jewelry, collectibles, etc, you would probably do better to buy yourself a good fire- and water-proof safe and keeping them at home. You can buy a 330-Cubic-Inch fire-and-waterproof safe from Amazon for about $40

Of course, cases like this are extremely rare and Bank of America did admit its mistake and settle with Ms Ruff, so it was not a total loss. You may choose to take your chances, but don’t assume your safety deposit back is 100% safe.
Post Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:08 am
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