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Originally posted by littleroc02us

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Originally posted by riffdex




AI hate to break it to you but credit bureaus can make mistakes in your credit report whether you have credit cards or not, whether you use credit cards or not, and this does not occur more frequently as a result of you using credit cards. In fact, someone who uses credit cards responsibly will be better off than one who does not have credit cards, and is not building up a good credit history. A responsible credit card user is one who is responsible for the charges he has made and pays off his balance every month. That does not necessarily mean the person checks his account every day and 2 days is simply not a good window of time, even for a responsible person. If you believe that, because a person goes two days without checking his CC balance, it means he is irresponsible, then I don't really know what to say, but that it is not true. The 2 days, as mentioned, comes from the federal protections extended to consumers for debit card use. The Visa CC still has more protections than the DC, as you have 30 days for the CC and 5 days for the DC.

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If you don't use credit then what good is your credit report? If you pay for things in cash and buy a house with manual underwriting then what would you need one for. I personally pay for everything in cash, except my wife and I use a Discover Card that is in her name for Gas purchases and that's it. It wasn't my first choice because I would prefer not to use them at all. It's a fallacy that you need a Fico score to buy a car or a house. It can all be done with either cash or manual underwiriting. Here is what your forgetting with your facts about cc's vs debit cards.

1. Credit cards have interest rates that the company can jack up to a higher one, debit cards do not.

2. IMO debit cards transactions come directly out of your personal bank account so that if you are budgeting well, you tend to only spend what money you have, you don't borrow money and pay it back later like you do with cc's.

3. CC's have credit limits and if you go over them you will be charged a fee. At my bank I will be declined with my debit card if I don't have any money in my account.

4. They put a ceiling on my debit card so that if it were stolen the most a crook could get would be $200, with your credit card they could steal all the way to the limit which could be thousands.

5. With a CC and debit card when they are stolen both cards are cancelled and a new one with a number shows up in about a week. What would you do if you need to buy something with the cc you wouldn't be able to. As for the debit card, yes it's cancelled but I could simply go to the bank and take out money.

6. With a cc they report stuff to your credit bureau and not with a debit card. Your idea that you stated above isn't apples to apples. They cannot report debit card transactions on the bureau, that is completely false.

Tons of problems with cc's if your irresponsible with them. If you are a responsible user of either a cc or debit card then yes I believe you are checking balances on a regular schedule to help keep within your budget and not spending more then you make. I personally view mine almost every 2 days to keep track. A year a go someone got a hold of my wifes Discover card and they used it fraudently, we had to close it and get a new card. What a pain in the butt.

*Can you send me the link to the Federal law that protects cc's. I didn't see one in your post.

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Originally posted by littleroc02us
My 6 points are just simply facts of what could happen when anyone whether responsible or irresponsible uses a credit card vs a Debit card. That's all I was stating. They are possibilities are they not? Again Visa's website states that if you you respond within 5 days they will resolve the issue for you and you aren't liable for the charges.

As for someone buying a car, they could save up the money and buy a used car if they are barely making it for $1000 just to get by, they don't need to finance a car and buy a 25k car with interest only making 20k.
As for a underwritten mortgage the avergage person would need 20% down, 2 years clean rental record, and a mortgage payment not to exceed 25% of the persons expenses. Just check Churchhill Mortgage's website, they define the qualifications. This idea that people need a credit score to survive is laughable IMO.

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Originally posted by littleroc02us
Remind everyone that this is Visa's statement on their website:

Count on quick resolution and provisional credit if your card is lost or stolen. 1

If your account is compromised, Visa is committed to setting things right without further aggravation or inconvenience to you. Visa’s cardholder protection policy requires all financial institutions issuing Visa products to extend provisional credit for losses from unauthorized card use within 5 business days of notification of the loss.

*Again here are all the facts from this website:

http://usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_liability.html#anchor_2

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Originally posted by eastmn
There's an article in the news today about a guy who dumped ALL credit cards and is now using debit cards only. The car rental problems he calls "A Small Hiccup", nothing to worry about. He also freezes his credit report in order to keep the trolls out. Credit cards will always seem convenient, until...

Here's the article:
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112812/adam-baker-qa-man-vs-debt-creditcards

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Originally posted by riffdex

Credit is not the enemy, irresponsible spending habits are. For those who are making payments on time, a credit card IS safer. For example, I might order a product from a website. I could use my credit card or my debit card. Let's say I use my debit card. The item has not arrived yet, and it has been 5 days. I am no longer protected by the debit card. Then it becomes 10 days and I start to think my product is not coming. With a credit card, I have 30 days where I am protected. There are many reasons the item might not show up, it could be a fraudulent site, but not necessarily, it could just have been lost in a mail - but why should I be liable for this loss? The simple fact of the matter is, credit cards are extended more consumer protections under federal laws. Irresponsible spending habits have NOTHING to do with the protections offered to credit card users. Even so, if a user is really worried about forgetting a payment, they simply can buy whatever they needed to buy with the credit card and IMMEDIATELY pay the balance using their checking account. The CC simply offers a buffer zone of protection, but you can pay the balance immediately if you so choose.

About the car, I'm sure we all really want to buy a junky $1000 car that may break down in a few months. The problem is you think that the idea of financing a car only means you are buying a 25k car. My brother bought his car used, but from a reputable dealership at $5500. His old car had broken down and he needed a car immediately, so he financed it. Have fun with your junkers, he hasn't missed a day of work since. If someone makes no effort to build up a credit score early and their car breaks down (but they cannot finance one bc they have not built up their credit history), they probably deserve to lose their job when they can't get into work.

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Originally posted by littleroc02us

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Originally posted by riffdex

Credit is not the enemy, irresponsible spending habits are. For those who are making payments on time, a credit card IS safer. For example, I might order a product from a website. I could use my credit card or my debit card. Let's say I use my debit card. The item has not arrived yet, and it has been 5 days. I am no longer protected by the debit card. Then it becomes 10 days and I start to think my product is not coming. With a credit card, I have 30 days where I am protected. There are many reasons the item might not show up, it could be a fraudulent site, but not necessarily, it could just have been lost in a mail - but why should I be liable for this loss? The simple fact of the matter is, credit cards are extended more consumer protections under federal laws. Irresponsible spending habits have NOTHING to do with the protections offered to credit card users. Even so, if a user is really worried about forgetting a payment, they simply can buy whatever they needed to buy with the credit card and IMMEDIATELY pay the balance using their checking account. The CC simply offers a buffer zone of protection, but you can pay the balance immediately if you so choose.

About the car, I'm sure we all really want to buy a junky $1000 car that may break down in a few months. The problem is you think that the idea of financing a car only means you are buying a 25k car. My brother bought his car used, but from a reputable dealership at $5500. His old car had broken down and he needed a car immediately, so he financed it. Have fun with your junkers, he hasn't missed a day of work since. If someone makes no effort to build up a credit score early and their car breaks down (but they cannot finance one bc they have not built up their credit history), they probably deserve to lose their job when they can't get into work.

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Honestly the only thing you've convinced me of is how problematic CC's are so that they had to make all of these laws. If you chose to borrow money it creates a ton more problems than someone who pays cash, plus you tend to control you spending better. I'll stick with my method, it works well and millions of Americans should do the same. It worked for my grand parents, they saved for everything they owned and they didn't have all of today's issues that are related to credit. Also, someone who can't afford 1k for a car shouldn't be borrowing money they cannot afford to pay back. Bad idea! I pay cash for all of my cars and they are used. I just don't like payments like most people do. It's kind of humorous!

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Originally posted by littleroc02us
I never said anything about someone not being able to afford a $1k car, you must have misread my post. In this thread, I have never advocated buying anything other than buying a used car, and certainly don't advise anyone without significant savings to buy a new car.


-----Actually you stated that a 1k car breaks down and would be a waste of time. I was simply stating that someone should buy a beater enough to get them around until they get their feet on the ground. All you need to do is find a gem that is uglier then ever that has low milaege and maybe sucks gas for very cheap with cash-----

Knowing better than buying a $1k car is different from not being able to afford a $1k car. Case in point: My father bought a car three weeks ago on craigslist for $800, which broke down last night. He could have easily financed the car, and gotten a reliable used car from a dealership. My father was a mechanic for 25 years, he knows a good car from a bad car. But if you are paying under $1,000 for a car, there's a reason why it's only $1,000. He is missing work today. He will certainly get it fixed, but that doesn't change the fact that he has already missed out on some pay.

You can use whichever payment method you like, but you won't be protected from certain situations, which you would be protected from if using a credit card. You can suit yourself and use a less safe payment method, but [b]do not try to claim that debit cards are a safer form of payment when CCs are provided more protections by federal law.

------Although it is true that for those who chose to use CC's to buy everything that they are protected by federal law, that's what's so funny in the first place. That there are so many criminals out there going after cc users and stealing their identities because the credit limits on the cars are so high. A criminal can only get $200 on my debit card and then the bank will credit it back. If you do business with many websites all have to do when using debit cards is setup a pay pal account and you are protected because the user has to provide a product or be ousted from the site. If I use my debit card at a major company they all have liability for not delivering a product.--------

Not all websites use Paypal. That certainly is an interesting way to argue the virtues of using a debit card though - by suggesting we use Paypal. Why can't you just admit debit cards have their faults?

The fundamental problem in your reasoning is you associate credit card use with spending more than you have. It is simply a method of paying for something, just like writing a check, using cash, or using a debit card. A user could buy something with a credit card and IMMEDIATELY pay the balance with their debit card. This is what I do. The credit card is simply the method of payment with extra protections. You can use the CC and have the protections provided and still pay it right off with cash. Remind me again how someone buying with a CC and immediately paying it will get in credit card debt?

-------When you use cc's there is always a possibility of risk of getting charged extra fees unlike using cash or debit cards such as:

1. over the limit fee
2. hike of interest rates
3. lowering of your balance
4. late fee
5. bad reports on your credit report

*These don't happen with debit cards or cash. Plus there have been numerous studies such as the Mcdonald's one that shows that cc users spend more than cash buyers, because it's harder for the money to leave their hands when spending cash. When you use credit cards you don't pay attention as much to what you have left to spend but what your going to pay. We use the envelope system for Groceries and put $150 in there every 2 weeks. If there isn't anything left in the envelope you can't spend it. So it forces us to spend wisely. With a credit card you just whip it out and charge it and pay it back later. I'll guarentee most users don't budget that.---------

I don't go over the limit, I don't pay interest, I pay my balance immediately (so why do I care about balance limits?), I don't make late payments, and I do not have bad reports on a credit score because I am responsible with the card.

It's easy to name all the faults with a particular payment method, but it doesn't mean that the payment is necessarily inferior to another. I can name faults with cash: It can be lost or stolen and you have virtually NO protection, it can burn in a fire, it takes up more space in your pockets.

Debit card: you are not protected in certain situations and certain purchases, you may be liable if a merchant does not deliver the product as promised.

I have services that I am billed for after the fact, such as my cell phone bill. Does the fact that I am paying the bill AFTER using the service change the fact that I have the money to pay the bill? Simply because you buy something and pay AFTER rather than DURING the purchase does not equate to irresponsible overspending, and I think that is the mistake you are making when you think about credit cards.
---------You are only talking about responsible users, a large amount of the American public can't balance a checkbook much less handle a credit card. Again with credit cards there is always the abillity of spending more then you make and you cannot pay the bill or forget. When you use cash you cannot overspend. That is a fact!-------------

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Originally posted by riffdex


That's exactly what I have said. You are confused about what using a credit card can mean. You associate credit card use with irresponsible spending, which is why you cannot make a proper argument. Credit card use can lead to irresponsible spending, but they do not go hand in hand.

As I said before, it is easy to point out faults or virtues of a payment method, but it doesn't mean it's better. If you use cash you cannot overspend... interesting, but I do not overspend regardless. If I use cash I can be mugged and my cash is NOT coming back.

Either way, this is a thread about CC vs DC, so I don't see how cash got all tied into this thread. With DC you can overspend as well, and you can be charged an overdraft fee. That is why with both CC and DC, you should keep an eye on your balance on a daily basis.

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Originally posted by littleroc02us

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Originally posted by riffdex


That's exactly what I have said. You are confused about what using a credit card can mean. You associate credit card use with irresponsible spending, which is why you cannot make a proper argument. Credit card use can lead to irresponsible spending, but they do not go hand in hand.

As I said before, it is easy to point out faults or virtues of a payment method, but it doesn't mean it's better. If you use cash you cannot overspend... interesting, but I do not overspend regardless. If I use cash I can be mugged and my cash is NOT coming back.

Either way, this is a thread about CC vs DC, so I don't see how cash got all tied into this thread. With DC you can overspend as well, and you can be charged an overdraft fee. That is why with both CC and DC, you should keep an eye on your balance on a daily basis.

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Confused???? Hardly! I'm speaking on general terms for the entire American public as I've stated on both the use of cc's vs debit/cash users. I'm not just talking about you or only responsible users. The point is that there are huge differences between the two and I have found in my life that a cc is something my wife and I use very rarely, because we just don't really need it. Cash and debit cards take care of 95% of our needs. Borrowing money just plain stinks IMO, to many risks!

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