| A Shares Vs. B Shares: Did I Get Taken? |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
...you will pay nearly $1,600 in junk fees over a 10-year period.
That's like complaining that a Mercedes costs more than a Chevy.
"Expect me when you see me."
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Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:17 am |
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Jaszbo
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 35.90
Posts: 177
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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"Timing the market and outperforming it are two different things.", did I say they weren't?
I hope you aren't comparing yourself to Peter Lynch. Also when you write this "I have consistently beat the market since I started investing", do you mean the mutual funds you are picking are beating the market, which is really nothing to do with you, but the managers or if you are truly claiming that you are beating the market consistently, then you are a very rare person, very very rare.
The managers who pick the stocks are doing this as a fulltime job working sometimes up to 50 hours a week trying to beat the market with their stocks they are picking. They do this for a living and they have a lot of educations with the pros and cons of what they are doing. Are you claiming that you are better than the average fund manager? Because I'd be more than happy to show you statics that the average mutual fund does not outperform the average the market. I'M NOT SAYING MANAGED FUNDS CANNOT BE THE MARKET! Sorry I had to use capital letter, but all of a sudden words start getting put in that I never say.
Rolo didn't you also claim before that you average 186% return a year? I mean with such a great return you could teach Peter Lynch a thing or two, because he has nowhere near that kid of return. Do you have any idea what Peter Lynch has consistenly return in the market?
If you like cash in your mutual funds, that's good for you. I like some cash in my manged funds and it helps during the bear market. When there's a bull run the cash that is only getting 4% return in general at max isn't holding up as well. Start studying mutual funds with a high percentage of holdings in cash and you'll see that generally they don't do as well in the long run as the market, but during bear markets they do really well.
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Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:12 pm |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
"Timing the market and outperforming it are two different things.", did I say they weren't?
I'm just defining terms before the discussion. I'm talking to everyone, not just you.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
I hope you aren't comparing yourself to Peter Lynch.
If you read my post you would see that my point was the opposite, that you cannot compare individuals to mutual fund managers, for they have restrictions we do not. I was agreeing with Peter Lynch, not comparing myself to him.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
Also when you write this "I have consistently beat the market since I started investing", do you mean the mutual funds you are picking are beating the market,
And the stocks. And the timing of the two. NOT picking is also picking.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
which is really nothing to do with you,
Well those equities didn't just jump into my portfolio on their own! Why must you belittle?
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
if you are truly claiming that you are beating the market consistently, then you are a very rare person, very very rare.
Not only do I have a 60MB Quicken file to prove it, but my trades have been publicly posted on other boards, witnessed by others on here. Then there's tax returns...
Rare? Not really...there are others here who beat the market also.
I would agree to "Exception, rather than the rule" but then you have to ask "why?"
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
The managers who pick the stocks are doing this as a fulltime job working sometimes up to 50 hours a week trying to beat the market with their stocks they are picking. They do this for a living and they have a lot of educations with the pros and cons of what they are doing. Are you claiming that you are better than the average fund manager?
Again, if you read my post, you would see that Peter Lynch's whole friggin' book was about how the layperson can outperfom fund managers.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
Because I'd be more than happy to show you statics that the average mutual fund does not outperform the average the market.
That's why I say, "Don't buy average".
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
Rolo didn't you also claim before that you average 186% return a year?
At the time I bought my second home, yes. My lender has copies of those statements.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
I mean with such a great return you could teach Peter Lynch a thing or two, because he has nowhere near that kid of return.
I'll have to play the RFC card again: If you read my post, you'd see Peter Lynch taught me!
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
If you like cash in your mutual funds, that's good for you.
When did I say that? I implied that sometimes cash is the place to be vs. equities. Ask anyone who wasn't in cash 2000-2002.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
If you like cash in your mutual funds, that's good for you. I like some cash in my manged funds and it helps during the bear market. When there's a bull run the cash that is only getting 4% return in general at max isn't holding up as well. Start studying mutual funds with a high percentage of holdings in cash and you'll see that generally they don't do as well in the long run as the market, but during bear markets they do really well.
Why are you telling me this?...that was MY point. RFC!
"Expect me when you see me."
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Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:17 am |
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Jaszbo
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 35.90
Posts: 177
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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oh ok I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't relieze when you said 186% return that you were talking about a purchase you made in real estate, which 186% is very possible, buying it under valued, repairing, fixing and selling I can see 186% in a year being possible.
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Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:29 pm |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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Nope...Mostly GOOG and SIRI...that highly-focused thing 'they' tell you not to do. 
Sarah's pretty friggin' modest over there...she's not only trouncing any market, but my butt as well! She'll be a self-made Suga Mamma. 
"Expect me when you see me."
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Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:32 am |
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Toto
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 26.60
Posts: 133
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Newport Beach
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quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Nope...Mostly GOOG and SIRI...that highly-focused thing 'they' tell you not to do.
Sarah's pretty friggin' modest over there...she's not only trouncing any market, but my butt as well! She'll be a self-made Suga Mamma.
This is interesting. Is your concentration something new, or have you been doing it for a while?
Sarah, how long have you been concentrated?
My name is Toto and I am a stockoholic!
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Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:51 am |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by Toto
Is your concentration something new
No, always done it that way. When actively managing one's investments, why dilute your returns by buying something other than your top three or four picks?
I am not a fund manager, so I am not forced to limit my holdings to 5% of my entire portfolio, nor am I trying to figure out where to put $500 billion (however, I wouldn't mind having that burden ).
We can focus, concentrate. Would you go to a stadium when it's closed, or when there is a game on? Go where the action is; don't buy stocks/sectors that aren't making money. (pretty friggin' simple, I think)
"Expect me when you see me."
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Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:54 pm |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaszbo
I didn't relieze when you said 186% return that you were talking about a purchase you made in real estate
Ooops, I wasn't clear. No, my portfolio was making 186%.
I had this information handy to answer the question "How much of a down payment are you making?" with "None." I won't give up cash making this kind of a return to pay down a 5.75% loan. 
Additionally, a lender isn't taking much of a risk when you have liquid assets that could cover the loan, making it almost impossible to default.
"Expect me when you see me."
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Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:04 pm |
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Toto
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 26.60
Posts: 133
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Newport Beach
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quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
quote:
Originally posted by Toto
Is your concentration something new
No, always done it that way. When actively managing one's investments, why dilute your returns by buying something other than your top three or four picks?
I have a portfolio managed by shwab. Schwab made me moderately aggresive, leaving a bunch of cash. I invested the cash mostly in oil and made good money. I invest my Roth Ira and got 45% my first year. My goal is to double the money in my IRA this year. If that works I will take over part of the money that Schwab is managing. Ultimately I want to manage it all, but if I am satsfied with the returns I may just keep the two separate. They are switching the profolio to core value aggressive, but I want good retuns.
I am 54. how old are you Rolo?
My name is Toto and I am a stockoholic!
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:35 am |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by Toto
I am 54. how old are you Rolo?
Hey Toto, I'm 35 and my wife is 30. We have 20 years max until retirement (I'm shootin' for 15, but we'll see how bad I want a Maybach).
quote:
Originally posted by Toto
Schwab made me moderately aggresive, leaving a bunch of cash.
Time horizon (how much longer until retirement?) and most of 2004 & '05, on the average, didn't appear promising.
quote:
Originally posted by Toto
I invested the cash mostly in oil and made good money.
Beginning of '04? ehehe..yeah...I did oil tanker stocks. It was my way of paying for higher gas prices years in advance.
quote:
Originally posted by Toto
I invest my Roth Ira and got 45% my first year. My goal is to double the money in my IRA this year.
Keep in mind the market conditions...you can only play the hand you have.
I'm not saying you can't do it, but some markets are more difficult than others, so don't frustrate yourself.
Additionally, you cannot margin or short-sell in IRAs, which is why a regular brokerage account is handy.
quote:
Originally posted by Toto
Ultimately I want to manage it all, but if I am satsfied with the returns I may just keep the two separate. They are switching the profolio to core value aggressive, but I want good retuns.
It amazes me how much people will follow someone else, even at the expense of his own judgement. Doctors are a big one...I see people disagree (justifiably) with their doctor yet still follow along while suffering the consequences. Professionals are not infallible and a layperson doesn't have to be ignorant.
It's your money...ultimately YOU are responsible for it. You can give your portfolio more attention than anyone else can.
Approx 1/3 of my portfolio I keep in solid core-type funds and don't play with it. It used to be 80% 'hands-off' but that figure diminishes the more competent, confident, comfortable I get.
"Expect me when you see me."
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:55 pm |
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Rolo
Yo' Daddy
Cash: $ 309.70
Posts: 1551
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: Colorado/Florida
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quote:
Originally posted by sarah
Hey guys, you're OT....
Yeah....what of it? 
We're not OFF-topic...this is a DYNAMIC topic....until the original poster wants to make sumpn' of it.
quote:
Originally posted by sarah
you CAN buy ultra bear funds for your IRA (I've done it) which use shorting, futures, and options to maximize returns when the markets are moving down.
OH YEAH ProFunds...I forgot about those...prolly 'cos I haven't heard MT yammering about how the sky is falling...baha.
quote:
Originally posted by coaster
... are able to learn enough about the particular areas of expertise to be able to judge whether or not the professionals are competent. And it's in their best interest to do so. If they don't make the effort to do so, then maybe they share at least a small part of the blame.
hehe yeah...like that one commercial that equated investment management to heart surgery. I DON'T THINK SO. (I'm not saying one is less than the other, but c'mon...investment managers don't need 12-16 years of school.)
And you won't see "Surgery for Dummies" either...
at least...I hope not.
"Expect me when you see me."
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:55 pm |
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Toto
Preferred Member
Cash: $ 26.60
Posts: 133
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Newport Beach
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quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Beginning of '04? ehehe..yeah...I did oil tanker stocks. It was my way of paying for higher gas prices years in advance.
Yews, I played FRO and TNP. Made good money on FRO.
quote:
Keep in mind the market conditions...you can only play the hand you have.
Yes, if we are headed into a recession in 2007. I won't take over. But a company like EPIQ would be a good bet in a downturn.
quote:
I'm not saying you can't do it, but some markets are more difficult than others, so don't frustrate yourself.
I'm cautious after getting burned in 2000. I know people in the Motley Fool that believe in being concentrated. I enjoy looking at the different stocks, but as I told m friend instiead of investing $1,000 you invest 5 or 10,000 in the same stocks.
quote:
ally, you cannot margin or short-sell in IRAs, which is why a regular brokerage account is handy
I haven't ever done that. I know people who play shorts, but one lost his @ss and the other alomost did.
quote:
It amazes me how much people will follow someone else, even at the expense of his own judgement. Doctors are a big one...I see people disagree (justifiably) with their doctor yet still follow along while suffering the consequences. Professionals are not infallible and a layperson doesn't have to be ignorant.
It's your money...ultimately YOU are responsible for it. You can give your portfolio more attention than anyone else can.
Agreed. Wich is why I began learning investments and ways to make superior returns with less risk. I think some risk is eliminated by daily attention and calculating your risk.
quote:
Approx 1/3 of my portfolio I keep in solid core-type funds and don't play with it. It used to be 80% 'hands-off' but that figure diminishes the more competent, confident, comfortable I get.
In 2007 I will be to the 80% hands off stage in the main portfolio, but if there is a downturn I may wait until it looks like we are coming out of it.
I inherited a sizeable chunk of change and didn't know how to manage it. I am learning and as you see, gaining more confidence. I analyze my portfolio and risk and research most of the investments.
I could tell you about the different brokers I investigated and the hustles. And the decision to learn investing to get better returns and also check up onthe portfolio.
We ought to start a thread "What to do in a Downturn" and see everyone's ideas.
My name is Toto and I am a stockoholic!
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Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:39 am |
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